vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
111681-torn-i-like-draken-storyline-but-dominion-is-still-like-waaaaay-evil-page-2
Page 1, Page 2 Content ---- Well personally speaking I'm fine with the Exiles having 'grey' areas. Revolutions are rarely bloodless or neat. What they call terrorism I call fighting smart. | |} ---- I assume you are being sarcastic / trolling here? We both twisted facts to suit our own biased opinions... That was the point of my example. The Exiles didn't fight back during a rally.. Admiral Brightland assaulted a port and STOLE dominion vessels while killing many citizens (both soldiers and civilians). He then led a bloody campaign against the Dominion... For literally doing the same thing police are doing in Ferguson MS right now IRL. Do you think stealing some US warships and bombing the U.S. would be a good response to civil unrest in our country? The Mordesh? Victor made the Kool-aid and they all drank it, blinded by hubris and arrogance. Doesn't matter at this point; they produced a literal zombie apocalypse... Obviously they were going to get quarantined. That is what happens in a mass contagion situation regardless of whose fault it is, but they only have themselves to thank for their suffering and destruction. The Aurin knew what they were doing. Arwick explicitly advised the queen to ally with the Dominion, she explicitly refused. Arwick still chides her about that to this day in the Lore. She made a bad call because she is a naive and incompetent leader. Many of her subjects secretly hate her for that... but of course if they said so aloud they would be executed for meanness (though it leads to some funny anonymous lore entries). The Granok as a people weren't mercenaries; but they did decide to go -hulk smash on some Mechari diplomats who offered them citizenship in the Dominion. You kill diplomats you better be ready for war. And they got it and lost.... at least until the least honourable among them started stealing Dominion weapons, 100% against the way of the stone. They staved off the war, but were banished for foregoing their peoples treasured and honourable philosophy. The Granok in game are the remnants of this disdained and dishonerable band of Granok Mercenaries and sell-swords. So again, your biased opinion versus the above facts. Like I said we can play this silly game ad infinitum, but all we'll get are circles in the sand. Because the REAL objective facts are that both factions are dominantly good; with bad elements within both. We can propogandize events as much as we wan't, doesnt' change that fact. You think the Dominion is evil because of their centralized political system? Then so is America. You think they are evil because of a social caste system? Then so is India (though to be fair, in India you actually are barred from certain jobs if you are a low caste; while in The Dominion Low born can hold ANY office besides Emepror, and many low born hold tremendous positions of power (e.g. Admiral Brightland before his failed coup, Toric Antevian presently as head of the Radiant Legion). | |} ---- ---- One example Roc? The Dominion has the best quality of life in the galaxy (for ALL citizens) They do have laws and some of those do come with a life imprisonment / death penality (treason happens to be one, as does harboring / aiding traitors). Unsurprisingly, similar laws exist IRL in most nations. There was no Genocide on Arboria. The Chua Planet reapers are large forrest harvesting machines, not war machines. The Dominion seized the planet and extracted its resources to stop its use as a terrorist haven. The Planet reapers might have killed a whole lot of trees, but not any more Aurin than the Warrirors who attacked the machines. There are still large populations of aurin living on Arboria that did not escape; and while I'm sure plenty were captured and are prisoners/ slaves ..... We do literally the same thing here. In the Southern U.S., most of the infrastructure / public works projects are actually carried out by what is effectively slave labor (incarcerated prisoners). Was it justified? According to Dominion law, yes, according to Aurin mores, nope. Then again we tend not to bat an eye when we sieze the land and propery of criminals in our own country; or when we invade other countries for harbouring terrorists. Obviously the game lore also serves as a bit of social commentary. But it is a very 2 way street. If taking Arboria's resources is unjustified and makes the entire Dominion instantly 'Evil' then the unjustified Massacring of thousands of innocent civilians in a coup attempt makes the entire Exile faction 'Evil'. Like I told Sci, we can play that game ad infinitum. | |} ---- ---- The Aurin attacking the machines destroying their planet justifies their murder. The Aurin not giving up their friends justifies their murder. The Aurin failing to adapt justifies their murder. The Aurin have killed and destroyed the least in the universe. But the dominion has killed for more of them due to their peaceful nature. The living ones are captured and enslaved? Is that somehow a mercy? The Aurin don't want dominion quality of life. There was plenty of peace in the universe, the Dominion only want their own peace and doesn't view any other peace as valid. So they start wars and kill until everyone accepts their peace and their version on life. No one outside the Dominion reign deseves life, peace or freedom. Am I understanding this correctly? Official lore does not state a large population of Aurin still existing on Arboria. You made that up. Official dev states that there are a few siblings of the Aurin managing to survive. | |} ---- ---- This isn't fair! All the Dominion secretly wants is to walk a mile in the Aurin's shoes! Oh, no....wait. They just want the poor folks AS shoes! My mistake. "Yes", this could be viewed as sensationalism, but...I dunno. If there's no counter to this on the Exile side, it's somewhat telling. All that high class posturing among the trendy Cassian elite/decision making class seems to be masking something more sadistic. I mean, the Dominion already think of the Aurin race as non-sentients. | |} ---- ---- Now that I think about it...given how "cliquish", image conscious, and super trendy the Highborne are, I'd wager that this is a luxurious and sought after fashion item. Unless said Highborne seeks to die of embarrasment from not being "with it". Which seems unlikely, because too many wouldn't dare to be seen as wearing or doing something out of style. And this is coming from someone who really REALLY wants to play a Dominion character. (Draken Ladies = "Rawr! <3") But, I swear. Every...single...time, there is some new detail that's just so off-putting about them, that I just can't turn a blind eye. And as a result I'm just turned off from them, for a time. Maybe I'll reach double digit attempts before I'm fully desensitized. | |} ---- ---- It's not even just Arboria. Pretty sure I remember the Mechari in Whitevale flatout enslaving the previously oppressed (but now free) "Free-bots" and using them as pawns. By covertly hacking them and making them appear as though they were "simple machines who suddenly went berserk, and are now randomly attacking the Exiles." Which would give the Exiles a reason to destroy them. Basically the Dominion used vulnerable and freed life forms as cannon fodder against their enemies, while not giving a hoot what happens to those that were innocent. :edit: Wow! I'm glad I saved my old screenshots, from way back when I was leveling. | |} ---- ---- I believe I just did. The Ravaging of arboria is a direct corrolary to the United States deforresting the Colonies after taking the land from the Native Americans... Go ahead, Call 'Murica Evil... I dare ya :) Also, Official lore absolutely supports the very many Aurin still on Arboria. Only the Aurin that could be taken on the handful of Exile ships were taken off Arboria; the majority were left on the planet. There is no official lore on their fates; though there is officially no military campaign in Arboria; just the planet reapers which are essentially large chua combine harvesters and their guards. The Direct corollary on the Exile side is the Mordesh Zombie apocalypse, which canonically eliminated over 80% of all Mordesh and continues to plague the galaxy with the ravenous . I'm not saying it was very nice of the Dominion to take the Terrorists trees; but I AM saying if you wan't to compare heinous atrocities, start with the group that unleashed the ravenous and the contagion on the galaxy first (to the tune of actually virtually annhilating a species; rather than just taking their resources en masse). As for freebots; the Dominion freed an entire mine's worth of them from Protostar; then negotiated real contracts with them to continue working the mines while *gasp* getting treated and paid fairly for their efforts. The examples presented above (e.g. the mechari frebot lover) are rogue individuals (such as the thorns of arboria are rogue from the Exiles) Bad yes, but not under the direction of the Dominion. When Dominion citizens do terrible things; they are punished in kind. When Pyrious Octavian tricks the player into poisoning a village of Pell, Toric Antevian (literally the only decent guy in the game) orders you to find and stop him.You do. The Dominion doesn't tolerate unjustified violence. This topic has been beat to death and has been done long ago (2 months ago) in another thread. The Dominion are no more or less evil than the exiles. P.S. Dhar; if you look closely, you will find Highborn working the fields, and low born in the governors offices around nexus. If you look closer you might also find a low born is one of the most powerful men in the Dominion | |} ---- I didn't even finish reading your post before starting to write this. The Dominion isn't any less or more Evil than the Exiles. If you read the lore Exiles are war criminals. They turned on the dominion ( the low born cassians ) and revolted. Not a peaceful revolt either... they hijacked ships and took off after causing a ruckus. On Nexus as a dominion you do quest chains saving people ( civilians ) from the cruel and horrible things the Exiles are doing to them.. you know.. the other low born cassians they betrayed? one that's very prominent at low level is town of Highcrest. Its people are plagued and dieing due to a syntetic plague made by Exiles. On the note of palying a drakken... the Drakken are all about killing anything and everything... so if you are worried about evil I think out of all the races on the Dominion side, Drakken are the most likely to fit what you don't want lol. Also I played both sides to 50. As a Mordesh you play in the same zone as Aurin in the beginning and if i remember correctly theres a quest where a Dominion medic is helping an Aurin. As a dominion you later see that same medic on trial for treason and have the ability to " forgive and forget" or execute him. I let him go, lol Look up some of the lore, Dominion are not that bad. There were more or less forced into becoming the Dominion at first and have learned to embrace it. They banded together to fight some " force " in the universe that is coming and are fulfilling the wishes of the Eldan. The Dominion created order and peace between many species. If not for the Dominion the Exiles would not exsist themselves. Aurins would still be on their home planet and the Granoks too. What the Dominion does is not always the best but look at the real world around you... the same could be said about any super power country too. | |} ---- Id tell you go home alliance cuz this Dominion aint blue ;) | |} ---- Ofgicial dev post says that after 10 years of Ravaging there are few Aurin left on Arboria. Look it up. As for real life examples: Leave them out they are derailing simplifications. The Dominion is composed of mostly violent races that have done horrible things to the Exile Races. The only horrible things that the Exiles have done were in reaction to the Dominions evil. The evil that Exiles perpetrated is confined to Nexus where they finally get a chance fir payback. And even then it's a fraction of what the Dominion truly deserve for their crimes in the Galaxy | |} ---- aligning yourselves with terrorists and saying " it wasn't me it was my friend " doesn't fly >.> if a crime is committed and you have knowledge of it and harbor/ work with that person you are an accomplice to the crime. Just like the Aurins helping the humans... that's what brought the dominion there... maybe you Aurins should be hating them for bringing war to your home. Until the humans were harbored on Arboria the Dominion and Aurins were on the fast track to peace and were likely going to join the dominion. you can read about it in a journal somewhere in the Aurin starting area if i am not mistaken. | |} ---- ---- ---- I'm doing that... Past the Arkship and Crimson, now just started with Ellevar I think. Going to play to at least lvl 10 and see how it goes. But my point wasn't that the Dominion=Evil and Exiles=Good, but rather that the starting zone, especially the Arkship really does a lot to paint that picture. Torture, killing citizens, burning down forests even if they are holos, just for the sake of it... The contrast is pretty strong between the two, and I wish that Carbine would of toned it down. Of course that's water under the bridge now, too late to do much. Just saying that if there's a lack of Dominion players, it's Carbines own fault for overselling the bad side of them so much on the Arkship. Perhaps, but all they did was brainwash them to not attack the exiles, they didn't do anything that directly threatens the security of the Dominion, and for that they're all given to a psychopathic Chua, which seems to be a redundant statement... who kills them all in the name of science. Again, I can see that the Dominion isn't nearly as bad as they may seem, they're not the Sith Empire from SWTOR for example, they're more like the Empire of Man from 40k. But there's little question in my mind why people tend to think of them as evil, because that's the picture that's painted in the first 5 minutes of game play, and as the saying goes... There's no second chance for a first impression. | |} ---- The Aurin were not peaceful by any means. They have a culture of forced kindness, LITERALLY under penalty of death. They were vicious hunters and kill and eat sentient vegetables (remember the gamblers ruin, where the Aurin chases down the veggies you just saved to eat one while they run in fear?). Aurin aren't really any better or worse than the Draken if we are being honest. At least the Draken have a strong sense of honour. The only thing Aurin treat super well are trees TBH. I will say the Aurin have good hugs, which is cool, but if you don't want their hugs they will also kill you... so...... Aurin were most certainly NOT neutral. The Queen explicitly chose to side with the exiles; against Arwicks advice. The Dominion came, demanded the terrorists; the Aurin declined thus becoming criminals themselves. Plus, 'Official' 6 hour live stream confirms dominion is not evil.... | |} ---- The Arkship has you move unwilling citizens with a zapper through the scanners that detect brainwashing, not torture them. And while some of the brainwashed did perish in Mondo's labs; it was an accident; he was trying to reverse the process and happened to fail. If we wan't to talk about heinous accidents, go chat with Victor Lazarin about his accident that wiped out his species and created the second most horrendous contagion in the galaxy after the strain, and the #1 worst violent space zombies. To boot, you actually DO catch the exile saboteur before he can manage to sabotage the ship and kill everyone on board. Uh, where did you get that? The brainwashing on the Arkship was intended to sabotage the Destiny and kill everyone on board. You stop that from happening by finding and eliminating the saboteur before they can successfully accomplish their goal. Mondo may be callous, but he's the best scientist the Dominion has. Lets remind ourselves that the Exiles best scientist (victor) has a much WORSE track record in terms of killing innocent people.... Thats a good way to go. As you were playing through Levian Bay I hope you noted the unprovoked attack on the Starr comm station; and took the time to listen to the Cassian Medic saving the Aurin soldier at the end of the cave. In Ellevar, pay special attention to Toric's quests; He's not the radiant star for no reason :) | |} ---- ---- Roc, I've posted this all before and I've played my Aurin and Mordesh through their respective stories just as well as anyone else. The Queen had her chance to turn over the exiles and Arwick strongly suggested she do it. You can argue she didn't fully understand the consequences of that decision; but thats an argument about her incompetence and naivete. Just like the Draken; I had to kill animals while Aurin hunters watched to get reputation. I watched fellow Aurin chase down screaming veggies to eat. The Aurin have never been 'peaceful'. Kind? Sure, damn sure, though it doesn't help their case that being mean is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE (punishable by death)... NO Roc, seriously, the Aurins weren't neutral. The Queen decided to ally with the Exiles. That act made them NOT NEUTRAL. She was advised by Arwick to ally with the Dominion, and they would have loved that 100%. But The Queen made that choice for her people. The Aurin had not only killed many of their own before encountering the humans, they had developed full on siege weaponry by the time the Humans encountered them. Yup, 'peaceful'. if Body count is all you are using for a metric, than Victor Lazarin is the supreme evil in the galaxy. He's killed more than the Dominion could ever manage to. Me thinks you've been RPíng for too long, and that it isn't me or the other lore junkies who need to come back from the deep end (not that there is anything wrong with that; but if you can't see both sides of the lore it's probably from a deep emotional attachment to your one side). | |} ---- ---- Harbouring terrorists is not neutral. The Dominion requested that criminals be turned over; the Queen said NO. That is the opposite of "They didn't stop the Dominion from chasing them". When the vegetables run in fear and beg for their lives? It's pretty not good. And no one wears boots made of 'dead civilians'. I assume you are reffering to the Aurin leather boots joke D posted? Because those weren't made out of 'civilians'. The point is NEITHER the exiles nor dominion are evil. Any point you try to make about the heinous things the Exiles do not being evil applies 100% to the Dominion as well (because Chua ear trophies are just as heinous as Aurin leather boots) | |} ---- ---- So the zapper isn't torture? I'm pretty sure anything that involves some form of high voltage would qualify as such. There is no way you can convince me that starting someone on fire, is a possible means of reversing brainwashing. Even if it's an accident, the whole point is that Mondo doesn't view those people as something worth saving, but rather just the subject of an experiment. The feel I got from that was if a thousand people die so be it. It's not like they matter in any way compared to science. That's not what the NPC's said. They all say things like "I don't think we need to fight the Exiles." If there's some other text that says they were going to destroy the ship I missed it. No such thing as unprovoked attack in a war. You mean the one who would rather be dead then turned over to the ICI? Yeah huge act of mercy there... Again, I can see that the Dominion isn't simply the Evil Empire, but trying to prove me wrong doesn't help, because I'm not talking about facts persay, I'm talking about my impressions. My first impression of the Dominion is not very favorable. | |} ---- And speaking of that medic. She's part of a brick joke. Guess what happened to her after doing her job as a medic to heal a wounded, friend or foe? As part of her services for keeping an Aurin alive to allow him to be taken to ICI custody, she ends up as a part of the Vigilant Church trials in Wilderrun, specifically the Trial of Justice, and unless you say otherwise, the Vigilant Justiciar was ready to have you execute her for high treason. And even when you refuse to kill her, the Vigilant is utterly shocked by your decision and just decides to replace the death sentence by life prison. | |} ---- Talk about evil... Putting in a link to TVTropes. They say even light can't escape a black hole, but TVTropes is so powerful it sucks in time itself. ;) | |} ---- When you ally with ,and fight for a terrorist organization ,you aren't a civilian. The Dominion didn't declare war; there actually is no official war between the two. The Dominion views the Exiles as criminals and terrorists; not a sovereign entity. Supplying terrorists is not being neutral; blocking the Dominion from implementing due process of Exile criminals is not neutral... The Aurin of course did attack the Dominion after the Queen officially denied them the Exiles. I understand the feeling, sentient veggies being eaten by the Aurin is pretty inconvenient for the idea that they are 'good'. But that's the lore and you are stuck with it. It does lead to some pretty funny events in game :) No, what you do (Dom) to the Exile assassin leader in Hycrest is torture. and what you do (Exile) with Avra is torture. Wrangling folks through a sensor with a single prod poke may not be terribly nice, but it's not torture. I don't need to convince you nor do I care to. Mondo explicitly states the fire; electrocution and mutation were unexpected and accidental side effects. That's canon. You're welcome to twist it how ever you like, but understand that that comes from a personal bias, not the lore. Chua science is largely based on trial and error, because as a short lived species with massive reproduction rates; test subjects are your most prolific commodity, so Chua can afford to develop technology through trial and error. That seems pretty bad if you don't take their biological and cultural context into account; but it's actually a nicer fate than your science progressing to the point of Hubris dooming your species (still looking at you, Victor). The point being; different context's but same painful situation for science on the Exile and Dominion sides. A surprise exile assault on an archaeological site under the direction of the Explorers guild is provoked? Strange definition of provocation there, but to each their own I guess. Because of propaganda? I'm sure he would, after all the ICI is relentlessly pragmatic and brutal. No one is safe, nothing is sacred; they will gladly torture, poison, and murder innocent civilians if they serve their larger goals. Oh, shoot sorry, I was wrong, That's actually the BLACK HOODS: "The Black Hoods are relentlessly pragmatic and brutal. No one is safe, nothing is sacred; they will gladly torture, poison, and murder innocent civilians if they serve their larger goals." No ones suggesting the ICI is a nice group, but for every example of Dominion treachery I can point out an Exile one to match. What happens? You (the Dom player) either let her off the hook or sentence her. The decision is up to the player. It is against Dominion law to support / assist traitors/ terrorists. BUT the Dominion allows for fair hearing and the ultimate decision is not arbitrary; you the player hear her case and decide whether she should be held to the full letter of the law or granted mercy. | |} ---- Not quite. The Exile humans staged an increasingly-violent series of revolts on Cassus, culminating in a large terrorist attack on citizens and theft of military equipment. The reason for this revolt was disagreement with Highborn privileges, privileges that make a bit of sense when you consider that Highborn are not completely human; their Eldan heritage makes them smarter, stronger, and just plain superiour to a pure Cassian- all advantages that likely led to their wealth and political status. The Granok basically chimped out and killed the Dominion's ambassadors when they requested that Gnox serve as their military. If they had accepted, one can imagine that they would have been as well-respected as the Draken took their place are now. The Mordesh snuck out of their quarantine on Grismara, a quarantine issued due to their self-inflicted Contagion. Their threat extends beyond simply going Ravenous: pathogens have a tendency to mutate and "jump species" avian and swine flu, for recent examples, meaning that the threat of the Contagion spreading to affect other species is quite real. That's 75% of the Exile races who have instigated conflict with the Dominion in some form. | |} ---- And while Roc and I may disagree on it; the Aurin had a chance to turn over the Exiles and ally with the Dominion. Arwick supported this, the Queen did not. The results are history. | |} ---- Oh, yes, because I'm just gonna hand over every extraterrestrial species I make first contact with to the next one who says the last one were wanted terrorists. And logic won't save me on that one because I wouldn't know the full story from each side. Logic would instead tell me that no matter my choice, I'll be screwed by one side eventually. Even if I choose the "I don't wanna get involved in any side, both of you, get off my planet, please" solution, it's still gonna bite me in the bottom soon enough. | |} ---- ---- ---- At least one Aurin wasn't stupid enough not to see that (Arwick). He knew what was best for the Aurin; and he voiced it. The queen didn't listen. you can claim ignorance for the Aurin but it's simply not true. The Queen was advised to ally with the Dominion and made her choice. So what were the Aurin using their catapults for before the exiles and dominion showed up? Tactical hug bombs? Harboring terrorists is a hostile act, and the Aurin knew it. the ''humans" alive today are still in possession of stolen Dominion property, are still carrying out terror campaigns against the Dominion, assault archaeological sites, homesteads, farms, and villages with regularity. They are a guerilla terrorist group from the Dominions PoV. The Mordesh disease wasn't an accident; it was a side effect. They got EXACTLY what they wanted (immortality), they just ignored the risks and now suffer the consequences of their reward. And the Granok were not peaceful in their refusal. The Mechari warned them that it was in their best interest to join the Dominion; and it was. Superior technology, access to resources, the next galaxy wide threat that will require the might of the Dominion to overcome. The Granok made their position known when they killed the Dominion diplomats. | |} ---- Nazryn hasn't slammed anything. We may disagree but we maintain our positions with facts and respect. Your post on the other hand contributed nothing and is borderline personal attack. :) | |} ---- ---- Sorry you see it that way it is more concern, and there's nothing to add Naz hasn't covered or reposted a bunch of times. #acceptance It's time for some. :) | |} ---- I doubt those catapults could be used for flinging projectiles into and across outer space. Though knowing Wildstar's goofyness I could be wrong. | |} ---- ---- There must have been a lot of time to build catapults AFTER they were invaded huh? Considering the invasion lasted hours - days before the Exiles got who they could off world... You are technically correct; They could have built large catapults to hurl pillows ferociously at one another; but IIRC there is some lore that mentions tribal conflict in Aurin history. Honestly, It's not a point I care to argue. I trust everyone to draw their own conclusions about Aurin society from the knowledge that the Aurin had siege weaponry... even if those conclusions are that they were for massive pillow fights. | |} ---- That's true Ildur; but the lore shows that BOTH factions engage in very positive moral action as well as very negative moral actions. The Dominion OBVIOUSLY does some very questionable things. But the Exiles do just as many. EG. The ICI is bad, and the Blackhoods are JUST as bad. | |} ---- That's what Dominion apparently thought. I kid though. The Dominion themselves do not potray the Aurin as overtly hostile. Which is why I don't get why people here try. The Dominion understand that they bulldozed a peaceful race. Heck, they're proud of it! I mean, look at my boots! | |} ---- ---- Two rock hard.. shirtless men in tacky Camo pants and boots... Coincidence? I think not! | |} ---- Wait...you're an Aurin wearing Aurin skin boots? | |} ---- ---- I admit it... I have a Dommie alt that enjoys high fashion. | |} ---- ---- ---- One of the things that does annoy me a lot is that the Aurin's sole existence is to be a pity party and to make the Dominion look bad. Other than that, they contribute almost 0. In my RP, I'm not so black and white actually, but I also stray away from the Lore and make up a lot of stuff to make Rocio a bit more than poor little Orphan Waif. PS: My Mechari is a bad-tempered tutor to highschool aged highborn citizens that got reassigned to Nexus only 13 years from retirement. 13 years! Out in the middle of nowhere! Shooting Exiles is the only way she can keep from shooting her students. Aurin? She would say 'It is mathematically impossible for me to give LESS of a cupcake." | |} ---- What you do down the road or with other factions doesn't change the first impression you get. Not sure how many more times I need to point out that I'm talking about the first impressions I got of the Dominion faction. And again, that's not at all how it seemed to me, not after he pointed out I may very well not survive either. It's clear that the Chua are completely psychotic and the only thing that interests them is science, no matter how many thousands die. Once again this isn't about canon or what else happens down the road, it's about first impressions. | |} ---- And I don't know how many times I have to point out that when people play Exile for a while and THEN play Dominion (rather than starting them both together) their first impression ISN'T when they start to play their Dominion toons, but when they start to play their Exile one(s). Your first impression of the Dominion occurred when you started your Exile. And the anti-dominion propaganda in the exile side biases ones opinion if that's what they started with; while the exact same thing happens if you start with Dominion and don't play exile until later. I started my Aurin Stalker and Chua Medic at the same time and levelled them mostly concurrently. That made it harder to get sucked into (the Dominion are awesome and the Exiles are evil / The Exiles are awesome and the Dominion are evil). I'm not debating your perception; merely pointing out that your first impression was on your exile toon, and your later perception is coloured by that :) For example; you started as exile; I would wager that you find the horrific massacre of > 80% of his species by Victor to be a tragic accident; rather than hubris induced genocide? And as you've suggested, having a similar though far less extreme situation (Mondo accidentally killing a dozen brainwashed individuals) you find to be unspeakably evil. The corpus of both situations are the same: accidental science results in multiple deaths; but how you view them is coloured by where you built your emotional bounds first, not the narrative reality. | |} ---- ---- Science achieved! Now can separate plausible falsehoods from scientific truth! So what a few humies lose some appendages? SCIENCE! | |} ----